Getting My Squat Back on Track, Post Injury Style! - Team Franco Bodybuilding Forum: Competition and Fitness Board

Yoster · The Truth!

RE: Getting My Squat Back on Track, Post Injury Style!

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Thanks Dave.
----------------------

A little bit of this and a little bit of that...

General Warm up (including some squats with just the bar to train the knee a bit)

Bench: warm ups then 335X5 X 3 sets - PR (only 30 lbs off my meet max and 50 off my all time max...Really happy about this, this potentially means that my actual max now is larger than both of those. Will be excited to crush that in this fall's meet.)

Light Standing Presses: barX5 95X5 145X5 X 2 sets

and something really different for a change:
1 1/2 curls: 3 sets of 20

It was really hot in the gym tonight. Kind of draining. Almost happy that squats or deadlifts are out during this heat wave (the operative word here is "almost"). Hit another PR on bench. Really surprised that this is still moving with minimal issues. I felt like I was having forearm splints (like shin spints) though after bench. It subsided after a short rest. I threw in some 1 1/2 curls (one full rep + one half rep using the top half = one rep). I did these because they always feel good on my shoulders and my shoulders were definitely a little sore today. Probably helps the area where the proximal bicep tendon attaches to the labrum in the shoulder. Got some blood in there and it felt good. I think I'll keep this in there.

mikedeagle · Vertern Member

Hey Dwayne -

Well, I have read your past few posts and I feel for you - I have been there. If it makes you feel any better, less than a month after I won my pro card, I partially tore my rotator cuff. After several months trying to work around it (and through the pain and chortizone shot) and rehab, my ortho said I was 50/50 on whether I was to have surgery to repair my supra tendon. I decided against surgery and began a 6 month rehab process with my chiro. (sports guy - weightlifter - he "gets" it) in which I did only close grip pull downs, close grip low rows and stayed away from almost anything that had to do with chest and shoulders. I was told that if I had elected surgery, the rehab process would have been 6 months anyway with no guarantees of total success. Needless to say, this took the wind out of my sails a bit but I concentrated on my lower half and made great progress in my leg development and I am a very strong rower! LOL!

Anyway, after I was feeling a bit better, I ended up having a hernia and had that surgically repaired and that set me back 3 months from lifting anything over 25 pounds - sorry kids....anyway and I ended up puting on WAY too much weight... I FINALLY got back to some sort of health in February, 2009, and I trained for 8-9 months, strengthening my shoulder (I am a rotator cuff exercise freak now) and in November of last year, I set my sights on Joe's show this August.

I had lost all of my previous confidence that I once had and had to basically build myself back up from scratch. I am currently within 4 pounds of my competition weight and although I may have lost alittle bit of size (not really sure), overall, I am feeling whole again.

The main lesson that I learned from these experiences is that I now realize I am never going to be the strongest guy on the block and my physique is what it is. All I know is that I feel that I am going to bring an improved physique to the stage in August and at the age of 44, that is all I can ask for.

I have been there Dwayne - it is disappointing, but you will work through this and in the end, you will be a better athlete for it! Keep staying positive and do what you need to do to get healthy.

Mike

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Disappointing indeed Mike. I hear you. I just gotta work through this and then take my time at each step along the way...and realistically maybe I won't squat 500 this year, I have to keep in mind this possibility. The possibility still remains though, if I am smart about this rehab.

I spoke with someone today about it and told them about my doctor/PT run around story. They said that I need to remember that it is my knee. The doctor and the PT do not own it. Although I am going to PT, I have to keep things in perspective. I'm doing the PT for the MRI. I'm training to get my knee stronger. Will the PT help? It won't hurt...and the outcome is the MRI...which is what I want.

The paths to 300 and 400 on the squat were so much easier. This journey is going to take some dedication...and I've got a ton of it.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Little by little but not there by a long shot...

SQ: worked up to 225X10 (May 4th 2010 I did 20, with 10 in the bank, after first injury of the left knee)

DL: I tried to deadlift, my knee hurt...I went home

So squats were not too bad but really I'm not happy about it but "you need to be in a valley..." The knee didn't hurt too bad after that set of ten but I knew that I couldn't push too much more. So I tried to deadlift. The starting position of the deadlift totally hits the spot that hurts my knee. I did a couple reps with 135 but really it counts as nothing. Icing my knee right now as I type.

Tomorrow off...
Presses Thursday...
Rack pulls Friday...

-- Edited by winflex on Tuesday 22nd of June 2010 10:27:44 PM

Yoster · The Truth!

This journey is going to take some dedication...and I've got a ton of it.

You'll get there then!!

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

I hate taking NSAID but you cannot doubt the benefits. I started taking a course of Aleve which I will take for five days to get the knee under control. So far so good. The MRI may be out of reach because on Wednesday at PT, I smoked all the things they had me do. My flexibility improved and the pain in my knee is getting more bareable in certain positions. I know I don't have a ligament, cartilage, or tendinous tear. May be something is misaligned but the only thing that can fix it is working out. This is why I started up the NSAID to allow me to workout out at a level that could actually change something...which will start up tonight.

I skipped out on presses last night because I was at a business social function. It was fun to mingle and jingle a little bit. Back on the stick tonight!

arnold23 · Vertern Member

Dwayne, you should have them check your hip mobility. A lack of hip mobility may cause VMO strengthening to do absolutely nothing. The VMO cannot be properly activated if there is lack of ROM through the hips, ask them to check for you. And i'm not sure if you are in new jersey but there is a guy by the name of charlie weingroff who works in a PT clinic, google him and check him out, the guy is a genius (and he likes to lift heavy too).

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

That's a good point Sergio. I will ask next visit.
-------------------------

A decent one tonight...

Squat: worked up to 315X5 X 5 sets
Presses (standing, no knee drive): worked up to 213.75X5 X 3 sets - PR (three weeks in the making)

Rack Pulls (still painful to deadlift): worked up to 505X5 - PR

Since I'm on Aleve the inflammation in the knee has reduced a lot. So now, I can do what needs to be done to stimulate some tissue growth. I went conservative tonight on the weight but pushed up the sets for more of a volume effect. Felt good and I will be good for a decent increase next time...keeping the sets high.

Presses felt very easy tonight. Two weeks ago, I first attempted this weight for 3 sets of 5 and got 3 sets of 4. Last week, I missed pressing due to family things. Tonight, I nailed it. I think I've discovered a training secret on this. Drink Diet Coke while doing your sets. It actually works just as good as ZAP. Just imagine in combination with it. I was ZAP-less tonight but the Diet Coke did the trick. Just out of the box thinking!

I didn't attempt deadlifting but I could kinda tell that the knee had all it could handle with the squatting, so I just went conservative and pulled a conservative 5 rep PR on Rack Pulls. I'll keep the train rolling here until my knee's good enough to go from off the floor...which would probably require a minor decrease in weight due to the detraining of that portion in the movement---but I know I'll have no problems from upper shin through lockout : )

arnold23 · Vertern Member

You make my 305x5 on rack pulls seem like child's play. Nice PR's and I might give that diet coke intra-workout a try.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Hey Sergio, its all relative. I can't wait until I can pull from the floor again.
I think I'm going to try Diet Mt. Dew tonight..LOL!

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Also, wednesday is my next PT appointment; I'll ask about a hip mobility test then.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Bench: worked up to 337.5X5 X 3 sets - PR
Fat bar pullups: 5 sets
Tried to deadlift...a no go

On my last rep of my last set of pullups I let go of the bar and had to land. Didn't feel great on my left knee but I didn't die either in pain. I don't know if that's good or bad. I tried to deadlift at the end but that start position is a killer. I wasn't really going to deadlift tonight but I just wanted to see if I could....meh...

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

GOOD NEWS...BAD WORKOUT

Squats: still sore in the legs and joints from last Friday's awesome workout. I only worked up to 325X2, and 325X1 and did a little work at 225 to help stretch out the tight muscles. Slightly disappointed that I haven't recovered from that yet but really that was a big workout and I should be more understandable with myself. My knee kinda hurt too.

Anyway, the good news: I sent a long email to my doctor (not the specialist...the regular one) and just explained my situation and how I am unhappy with the way it all is going down and I ASKED HIM TO TRY TO REQUEST ANOTHER MRI FOR ME AND HE SAID YES!!!!!

Then today I got a call saying that my insurance APPROVED THE MRI!!!!

I can't wait to find out what is actually wrong with it. Knowing is half the battle.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

winflex wrote:

GOOD NEWS...BAD WORKOUT

Squats: still sore in the legs and joints from last Friday's awesome workout. I only worked up to 325X2, and 325X1 and did a little work at 225 to help stretch out the tight muscles. Slightly disappointed that I haven't recovered from that yet but really that was a big workout and I should be more understandable with myself. My knee kinda hurt too.

Just thinking out loud....but yesterday would have been a good day to do some speed sets. I volumized it on Friday and it only makes sense that I would still be a little beat up from that. It never makes sense to follow up a volume workout with a volume workout unless the previous volume workout was not truly enough volume. To squat better (or any lift for that matter) its important to do it often BUT when the linear progression train runs out and the variables are tricked up, its harder to do the same rep/sets for each workout. That's not how the body works. Either yesterday should have been a speed day, a recovery day, or an intensity day. Intensity is out because I want to be conservative with the load on my knee. So I should have either focused on recovery or speed...and I think I was sufficiently recovered for a speed workout.....I will keep this in mind next time--which will be Friday.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Squats: (still aren't feeling good) did some work at 225
Presses: warms, 215/5, 3,1, 5, 5 - PR (weird story here)
Rack Pulls: warms, 405X3X3sets

Lower body is sore and just doesn't want to get unsore. The first set of presses went well but the subsequent two felt impossible. Then I realized that my shirt was stuck in my belt and restricting my movement. Once I realized this I gave my shirt some slack and then the bar started moving again. I redid the last two sets and PR'ed. Decided to give the rack pulls a rest tonight and only go for triples on 405 for 3 sets. This way I keep the pull trained but not busting myself up too much.

Here's the last set of presses:

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

OOPS

Squat (still bum left knee): barX5X2, 135X5X4, 225X5X3, 315X1...(my knee didn't hurt on any of these but something wasn't right....more on that...)
Bench: worked up to 340X5X 3 sets - PR
High rep lat work on the pulldown machine

So I forgot to train yesterday because I had the day off from work...LOL. I had so much fun at home that I totally got distracted. Its okay; it was worth it.

For Squats tonight I wanted to just do a lot of work with light weight to help my knee hopefully. After all the light work my knee really didn't hurt until I tried 315. I actually videoed that set from behind and I saw that I was favoring the strong side big time. The knee itself felt okay not great but the whole movement was kind of off. My body was finding ways to avoid the pain and that's not good for squatting. If I could get the left knee to work I'd surely be in PR territory with my squat.

On the bright side, I got my MRI today and tomorrow I'm going to the ortho and he should have my report from the MRI by tomorrow. It will be good to know what is wrong with my knee so I can finally move forward without all the guessing.

Although my bench is still moving (and I'm happy for that), I really get bummed that I'm back at where I began two years ago with a bench bigger than my squat. I guess at least now its due to injury...and I'm way stronger all over...and still have had squatted more than I have ever benched...its just a bummer to be at the state I'm currently at after all the work I've put in in the last two years.

mikedeagle · Vertern Member

winflex wrote:

OOPS

Squat (still bum left knee): barX5X2, 135X5X4, 225X5X3, 315X1...(my knee didn't hurt on any of these but something wasn't right....more on that...)
Bench: worked up to 340X5X 3 sets - PR
High rep lat work on the pulldown machine

So I forgot to train yesterday because I had the day off from work...LOL. I had so much fun at home that I totally got distracted. Its okay; it was worth it.

For Squats tonight I wanted to just do a lot of work with light weight to help my knee hopefully. After all the light work my knee really didn't hurt until I tried 315. I actually videoed that set from behind and I saw that I was favoring the strong side big time. The knee itself felt okay not great but the whole movement was kind of off. My body was finding ways to avoid the pain and that's not good for squatting. If I could get the left knee to work I'd surely be in PR territory with my squat.

On the bright side, I got my MRI today and tomorrow I'm going to the ortho and he should have my report from the MRI by tomorrow. It will be good to know what is wrong with my knee so I can finally move forward without all the guessing.

Although my bench is still moving (and I'm happy for that), I really get bummed that I'm back at where I began two years ago with a bench bigger than my squat. I guess at least now its due to injury...and I'm way stronger all over...and still have had squatted more than I have ever benched...its just a bummer to be at the state I'm currently at after all the work I've put in in the last two years.

Dwayne -

I know it is a bummer, but keep your chin up and keep moving forward. Injuries are part of the game and one thing for sure is that when you step back on the bb stage one day, you will have a completely bigger physique because of this powerlifting training. Beleive me, I have lots of frustration with this sport, but I am getting through it - I am trying to wrap my mind around the fact that I am going to come into Joe's show probably 3 pounds LIGHTER than just 3 years ago and I hope to be at the same bf levels as I was 3 years ago. It has been frustrating to see my body change as I get older (now 44), but I am beginning to accept it and all I can do is simply work as hard as I can and we will see what happens.

Keep moving forward and do not think of the past because you are right, it is a bummer. All you can do when you get 100% healthy is control your future. Sounds corny, but stay positive and keep working hard!

Mike

Joe · Beyond Nutrition - Co Owner

Do you think its time to mix things up and go back to the traditional bb routine? I think it may be easier on the body and the mind.

Just a thought.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

So I got the MRI today and had an ultrasound done. I'm happy. Finally I know whats going on with my knee. I have some pretty bad bruising between my the lateral and medial condyle of my femur...which explains why I can't point to where it hurts. I could only say it hurts inside my knee...well that's exactly where it was injured. How this happened? Probably on a heavy walkout of a squat or possibly even just running around after my daughter after a heavy workout. At this point, it doesn't matter. I know what's wrong and I know what I need to do to let it heal....and its the hardest thing...no squats no deadlifts for 4-6 weeks. The ortho told me that the bruising is similar to stress fractures in the time and the processes that take place for it to heal. You definitely don't squat on a stress fracture. So, after a year and half of squatting for 2 to three times a week, I will be squatting ZERO times for 6 weeks. I am going to be having some serious withdrawal.....I'm still going to do my overhead standing presses though : )

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Pretty much no legs for the next six weeks. Any weight bearing exercise for the left leg will keep the bruise from healing and could send it down the path of stress fracture.

No fun.

I guess I will have more time for more assistance exercises though and I could just put those in as long as they don't load the joint. I can probably still do lighter rackpulls and maybe good mornings with a lighter weight....but also, back extensions, lat work, ..maybe stiff legs (would have to try it first to be sure)...but the two bread and butter lifts are out until the bruise is gone.

I guess I can be a bench specialist for the next six weeks. I will also have to do some heavy ab work since I won't be getting my core without the squats and deads.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Joe wrote:

Do you think its time to mix things up and go back to the traditional bb routine? I think it may be easier on the body and the mind.

Just a thought.

I need to let my knee heal and thanks to the MRI, the only thing that will do it is rest and time. I'm just happy I didn't tear a meniscus, ACL, MCL, LCL, PCL, cartilage, etc. No surgery needed !!!

There are a few things I did in traditional bodybuilding splits in the past that have done more bad than good. Quite a few of the isolation exercises were injurious to me. Its not the case with everyone. Leg extensions gave me patellar tendinosus. Lateral raises would always tend to impinge my shoulder. Flyes would tend to over-stretch my shoulders and inflame my proximal bicep tendon leading to pain in any type of press. My triceps were always over-trained which didn't allow me to press to my potential in the compound movements.

I know these things are all part of the game but when I switched away from all that and just focused on the compounds, I found myself getting stronger, bigger, and with less pain and issues [well until now]. I don't miss the traditional bb split. That was more of mental strain for me to keep track of 20 different exercises and how I was progressing or not progressing.

Now I only care about progress on 4 lifts: squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead. For me, this simplicity is the mental break I needed after doing bodybuilding style for 10 years. I bodybuilding splitted from the age of 17 to 27. 28-29 has been very enlightening though...just focusing on the four main lifts.

I kinda wished I did that in the beginning.

Joe · Beyond Nutrition - Co Owner

winflex wrote:

Joe wrote:

Do you think its time to mix things up and go back to the traditional bb routine? I think it may be easier on the body and the mind.

Just a thought.

I need to let my knee heal and thanks to the MRI, the only thing that will do it is rest and time. I'm just happy I didn't tear a meniscus, ACL, MCL, LCL, PCL, cartilage, etc. No surgery needed !!!
There are a few things I did in traditional bodybuilding splits in the past that have done more bad than good. Quite a few of the isolation exercises were injurious to me. Its not the case with everyone. Leg extensions gave me patellar tendinosus. Lateral raises would always tend to impinge my shoulder. Flyes would tend to over-stretch my shoulders and inflame my proximal bicep tendon leading to pain in any type of press. My triceps were always over-trained which didn't allow me to press to my potential in the compound movements.
I know these things are all part of the game but when I switched away from all that and just focused on the compounds, I found myself getting stronger, bigger, and with less pain and issues [well until now]. I don't miss the traditional bb split. That was more of mental strain for me to keep track of 20 different exercises and how I was progressing or not progressing.
Now I only care about progress on 4 lifts: squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead. For me, this simplicity is the mental break I needed after doing bodybuilding style for 10 years. I bodybuilding splitted from the age of 17 to 27. 28-29 has been very enlightening though...just focusing on the four main lifts.
I kinda wished I did that in the beginning.

Well put and I respect what your saying.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Long day
Presses: worked up to 216.25/4,5,3 (groove was off tonight)
Rack Pulls: worked up to 510/1,1 and then 455/3

Long days always lead to bad workouts for me. I started early today and ended late and by the time I got to my workout I was just not there...but I went anyway. My presses were horrendous today. I couldn't keep it tight for more than 3 reps. The set where I got all 5 reps was segmented. I first got 3 reps, then lost groove on the fourth, regrouped, pressed it up and then got the second. My energy was not there. I know I have it next time though.
Its funny how when you know what's wrong with an injury that you tend to hold back more. This is exactly what happened on my rack pulls. I started to feel my knee and then I just couldn't push myself. I didn't want it to get any worse. So I backed off on the weight but I think I was shut down by that point. I have to be more patient. Time to eat!

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Back on schedule today...

Bench: worked up to 342.5X5X 3 sets - PR
Chins: 5 sets (total rep increase of 1 since I last did these two weeks ago..so that's good)

Decided that I have to drop rack pulls for the next 4-6 weeks because my knee didn't respond so well to them. The next accessory to try will be good mornings. hopefully these are light enough and the lack of knee bend will allow me to do some sort of lower body work without aggravating the knee while it heals. The other plus is that the good mornings should be able to help me to maintain my low back strength, shoulder mobility, and hip mobility...which all play a huge role when I can squat again.

For grip strength I will just continue to push the reps on chins on every bench or pressing session. This will help to maintain my monster crush grip that I have when I deadlift or rack pull. I may even look into getting some fat gripz to help make it even more effective.

over and out....

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Started a new exercise progression today
Good mornings: worked up to 135X5X3 (easy)
RDL's: worked up to 275X8X3 (easy)

Did a ton of sets working up to these work sets which were pretty easy but I was getting tired. The nice thing about these is the lack of knee flexion/extension but still working the legs pretty well (minus the quads and adductors). These will do well to while my knee heals.

Joe · Beyond Nutrition - Co Owner

To bad about the knee still acting up.

We probably touched on this before, but have you tried mega dosing EFA, 3 6 and 9?

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Yep. I'm taking Ultimate Omega for my EFA/fish oil. I'm also taking Glucomsamine/chondroitin/msm/hyaluronic acid supplement.

The problem is that my knee problem is not a tendon, ligament, or cartilage issue. This is what the MRI report said:

" There is a subtle subchondral marrow edema signal along the anterolateral femoral condyle. There is also marrow edema along the femoral trochlea. A discrete fracture line is not seen. There is no overlying articular cartilage defect. Differential diagnosis centers between bone bruise and stress response."

Its pretty much like its a fracture but not....like I almost fractured a bone in my knee. I never gave it time to heal. I just have to wait it out for the bone to heal itself. Doctor said 4-6 weeks. I have 1 week down and 5 to go.

I think I injured it when I did a workout back in April and I was walking out a squat and nearly lost balance but I got it back using my left leg. It was all my weight (around 260) plus the weight of the bar (405) all landing on left foot, going through my knee. That's what probably caused the bruise and the bruise is what took me out of the squat at the meet.

I should have let it heal but I didn't know better and now, since I know what it is..I can let it heal. I just have to not squat for a little while.

winflex · Beyond Nutrition Sponsored Athlete

Back on top of this...

Presses: worked up to 216.25X5 X 3 sets - PR(I'm still doing these strict with no knee bend...no plans on switching to push presses as it would defeat the purpose)
Chins: 1 set of max reps (I got 8!) - PR

So this workout was awesome because I hit PR's on both exercises. I actually topped my best chins ever tonight. The best I ever did on chins was back in July 2008 when I weighed 185. I did a weighted chin with 60 added lbs for 7 reps. So in total (my bodyweight plus the added weight) that was 245 lbs for 7 reps. I'm pretty sure that's the most I ever did

...and here I weighed 270 at this workout (weighed myself in clothes at the gym at the end of the workokut) and I busted out a max rep set of 8 reps. That's pretty good for 270!! This was my third chin workout in as many weeks. So, this is just the beginning. It will be cool to see how far I can take these over time...and how big and strong I can get my lats and other pullup muscles...LOL.

.....

Also on another note, I think I figured out a way to hit my adductors without knee movement. I'm doing to do sumo RDL's or sumo stiff legs on the alternate leg days. So Tuesday will be what I did this Tuesday and Friday will be GM's and sumo work. That way the only thing that will not necessarily get work will be the quads while the knee heals. That's okay though...quads come back fast in my previous knee injury experience.

-- Edited by winflex on Thursday 15th of July 2010 10:22:22 PM

Joe · Beyond Nutrition - Co Owner

Didnt know it was bone. That is frustrating, but the good news is that you will know it will heel stronger.